THE Facts on Print Yellow Pages

10 Comments

• 1. rzwetsch  |  June 19, 2008 at 8:35 pm

  Ken,

  Can you help us become unconfused and more informed?

  How exactly is the nearly 14 billion times a year the print Yellow Pages is referenced determined? That sure is a big number but doing some pretty basic math shows us 1) yes, millions of small/medium sized businesses are being contacted and 2) yes, there is a potentially even larger number of businesses that don’t even get one reference…or at the very least, don’t get enough references to make the investment worthwhile.

  Are there any other sources of data, information, insights available other than from the very groups that were formed to promote the Yellow Pages industry and in fact are supported by the Yellow Pages industry? Slap me upside my head if I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s completely unbiased information to me. It may be the ONLY source but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the most reliable or the most accurate.

  Why are the print Yellow Pages publishers shaking in their boots about all the opt-out of print initiatives? Is it really right for these upstanding, community and environmentally conscious corporate citizens to 1) be afraid of something like this; 2) be trying to stop something like this and 3) be saying that these efforts to rally the opt-out of print troops are bogus? Why do these guys want to keep sending print books to people that hate their guts? (Oh yeah…for the same reason that magazine publishers send you a sample copy of their book and keep sending it to you until you’ve thrown 4-6 pay up now or we’ll blow your house down invoices in the closest File 13. It’s all about circulation. It’s all about ad rates.)

  Is it possible that all these cranky, confused and uninformed miscreants are simply voicing their opinions about what they don’t like about the print Yellow Pages? Why it’s just not useful for them? Why the information isn’t complete enough or it’s out-of-date? Why with so many choices(ads) that look the same – it’s just too hard to know which business to choose?

  What’s giving me a little agita is the Yellow Pages industry’s boisterous proclamations about how great their product is with what appears to be a complete disinterest and disregard for what users think they could be doing better. The very users that eventually can become their advertiser’s new customers. Kind of a – hey, we’ve been around since the big man upstairs was looking for a plumber so…it’s our way or the highway.

  Maybe you should consider taking some of the success stories (both user and advertiser) and making an infomercial? Or three or five or several dozen infomercials. Put ‘em all up on YouTube and away you go. Give all the Yellow Pages sales reps access as testimonials.

  And then try corralling a few million of the folks that don’t like the print book and rather than allowing them to go blatherific on why the print book is the very bane of their existence – ask them what would make the book more useful for them. Or what would make any component of each of the publisher’s multi-platform advertising solutions more useful for them. What would it take for all the print book bashers to take a second look?

  I’ll bet all the past, present and future print book advertisers would like to know about that information!

  Thanks for your help and all the good work you do!

  Rick Zwetsch

  P.S. Do you have any idea as to whether the print Yellow Pages sales teams are going to start vigorously waving the “Internet Metering” red flag in front of advertiser’s and prospective advertiser’s faces? Even if they’re thinking about it – it might have a teeny weeny impact on that infamous multi-platform strategy that we all know and love!

• 2. KenC  |  June 20, 2008 at 8:57 pm

  Rick:
  Let’s try go through your comments and answer your questions:

  1) Source/bias: The industry research is done by KNI/SRI a respected research organization that does over 9,000 interviews annually to compile these results. KNI does similar work for many industries so I’m not sure why you are assuming they are faking the numbers just for the YP industry. If they were, they would be out of business instantly as no media; especially the non-YP ones would want them. The industry doesn’t dictate the questions they ask, no respected research group would allow that. What consistently surprises me are you non-believers who think the industry makes this stuff up. The research has been done for over 10 years, and now people are questioning it?? Suggest you ask TV or radio how they measure their results. Those are far more suspect.

  2) 14 Billion look-ups: of course a business could get several references. I look up some one while at work, and then arrive home realizing I didn’t write the number down – back to the book, and maybe I find another business I want to talk to. There isn’t a standard number of calls that a YP advertiser gets (it varies by heading), but some can often get hundreds each month. And to your point, of course there are some advertisers that may not realize value for their advertising – hence about 60% of the ads in the book do change each year between information changes (company name. telephone number, location, etc.), new advertisers, and those that drop their ads.

  3) Opt-out: I’m not sure which publishers you have been talking to, but I can tell you none of them are “shaking in their boots”. What they will not do is accept an opt-out from a third party. They have no way of verifying that the request is valid. For example, would you expect the power company to accept a third party request to disconnect your electricity? Same thing here. And there have been several attempts in the past that have been totally bogus. After several years of collecting names one group has never contacted a single publisher. Want to guess what they are doing with those names???

  4) Cranky, confused and uninformed miscreants: they certainly have the freedom to use whatever forum they want to voice their opinions, just as I do. But you should note that everything I have seen posted in support of the print Yellow Pages is of a factually nature: no virgin trees are knocked down for the industry paper, the book is fully recyclable, only .3% of the waste stream is from directories, and publishers are accepting requests for opt-out are just some of the example. I can’t say the same about some of the posts I’ve seen from the anti-book crowd. After all, it’s just a Yellow Pages. If you don’t want it, it only takes 30 seconds once a year to get it to the recyclable bin.

  4) Boisterous claims of value: not sure why that is bothering you that the industry is tooting its own horn. Why shouldn’t we? Have you ever visited a new small business that made the tough decision to spend a lot of money on their new Yellow Pages ad only to find they got more business than they could handle?? Have you ever talked with a struggling business that added more ads in different books and the new IYP products to their advertising mix, and promptly saw their business turn around?? Can you name a local business that is very good at what they do, but doesn’t know a thing about marketing – who can they turn to for help? I’ve seen each of these myself, first hand. It is amazing to see the positive impact this product has brought to them and they are more than happy to have you come visit them again. It works for MILLIONS of businesses.

  5) Infomercials: agree with you totally and am equally frustrated that this industry does a horrible job of marketing the real value it brings.

  6) P.S. Internet Metering: Not sure what each publisher is going to do, but I can tell you this, at this point, the vast majority of small business don’t know how to use the Internet for marketing. And who will be a trusted source for them to ask – I think it’s going to be the YP people.

  Thank you for your comments and the chance to explain why I and the other 50,000 plus people who work in this industry are so passionate about the products.

• 3. rzwetsch  |  June 24, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  Ken,

  A few additional comments/clarifications:

  1) No assumption being made that the numbers are fake at all and you’re right, if they were fudging numbers, they would be adios.

  Also no implication that the numbers are made up. But, just like TV, radio, newspaper, magazine and any other advertising medium – ahem – including the Internet, where circulation numbers are what determine ad rates, short of interviewing every human on the planet – I don’t believe you can take any research at pure face value. Media/publishers take the numbers and spin ‘em the way they need to – to tell a powerful story to get businesses writing checks. Obviously, publishers are not going to feature the number of non-renewals each year. But, any stammering when I, as small business owner, would ask that question of a sales rep and the conversation would be over. I’d love to hear the answer from a Yellow Pages sales rep!

  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you earn your living, part of the problem is small to medium size local businesses don’t know the right questions to ask…to know whether the story is “really” believable or not.

  2) I still think the 14 billion referrals is a very big number that will impress and is used to impress small to medium size local businesses into spending money in an advertising medium that may be part of complete, well thought out and planned marketing/advertising strategy and may not. How many of those referrals are in the local business’ trade area? That’s what they care about.

  No Yellow Pages sales rep I have talked to in the 15+ years I have been a small business owner would have been capable of that kind of planning and advice. It’s print Yellow Pages or nada. I know everyone in the industry would like to think otherwise. I think that’s going to be a tough sell to business owners and marketing professionals that have been around the block even just a few times.

  3) I have no idea what they’re doing with the names. I’m in the process of finding out. And I agree with you completely, I don’t want some bozo arranging to have my electricity turned off for me without my permission. Of course it’s not quite fair comparing opting out of Yellow Pages delivery with disconnecting my power but…

  Opt-out has been done with mail and phone and it’s only a matter of time before it will be done with the Yellow Pages. One thing seems certain, plopping heads full fo denial in the sand and pretending that 1) it’s not happening and 2) it doesn’t matter if it does happen borders on that infamous definition of “insanity.”

  Maybe “shaking in their boots” is a little too presumptive and I apologize for that. But anyone that’s been around media for even a day or two knows what happens when circulation numbers go down. The you-know-what hits the you-know-what and it makes a BIG MESS. There are a couple of elementary work-arounds that could help ease the pain and turn the whole deal into a PR BONANZA – but we’ll save those for another post.

  4) In my town you can’t, or at least you’re not “supposed” to just throw the Yellow Pages in the recycle bin on the curb. For me it’s a 2.5 mile drive both ways and if you’re REALLY anti-Yellow Pages – you do that three 2-3-4 times a year. The point, and it’s a HUGE point is if I don’t want it – then don’t send it to me.

  And we know there’s a way you can arrange that with each publisher. I am going to be presumptive again and have this sneaky feeling that 1) the process isn’t a “quick” phone call 2) it may or may not happen on the first try and 3) if significant numbers of people do start calling to opt-out, the publishers won’t be throwing confetti in the air and toasting champagne!

  4) All valid claims and observations and I have seen it many times myself. And there is certainly nothing wrong with tooting your own horn.

  But for every business that turns around – there’s a business that goes OUT of business. My educated guess would be there are likely more of the latter. Do businesses turn around because they’re advertising in the Yellow Pages? Maybe a few – maybe more than a few. But categorically? I don’t think so. One only has to listen in on the publishers earnings calls when they talk about delinquencies to suppose that there’s an ever increasing number of local businesses that are NOT hyperactive to write that check for their Yellow Pages ad or in fact – don’t write it at all. Just a hunch…

  And once again, most small to medium size local businesses don’t know much about marketing. There’s no question, EVERY local business should “consider” advertising in the Yellow Pages as part of their well thought out and researched strategic marketing plan. I’m just not convinced, for even a minute, that the local Yellow Pages sales rep is the professional to turn to for that objective, thoroughbred kind of strategic marketing advice. Neither is the TV, radio, newspaper or magazine sales rep. After all, recommending “other” marketing and advertising buys won’t help any of them achieve that ___(Insert Media)___ Sales Rep of the Year award!

  6) Maybe one day but certainly not today. Based on the current online Yellow Pages offerings – at best it will be attempting to promote the Internet Gold Rush of 10 years ago basically trying to connect page views, eyeballs and clicks. It’s all about advertising impressions and nothing about quality and value. Attempts at value are being made with click-to-call, video, widgets and all the other happy technology treats. But, to think that a local small business that doesn’t know much about marketing nor how to use the Internet for marketing is going to be able to effectively leverage video in their online or offline marketing strategies requires a GIGANTIC leap of faith. IMHO.

  I understand publishers wanting to plaster ads all over every page of their Web sites. It’s what pays the bills. But to have little competitor text ads and competitor ads by Google and banner/tower ads for products that have nothing to do with me and MY small business surrounding MY business information and MY profile and MY marketing message and tempting viewers of MY information to click away from me and go somewhere else is bogus. I paid BIG bucks to get MY information up there and have it be found, looked at and acted upon. It appears what I’ve really done is created a platform so the publisher can sell more ads to everyone and anyone that’ll buy ‘em. Neat-o.

  I guess my point is – if every local business owner really knew how this game (online and offline) was played there would be a BIG mess on the floor. On lots of floors. And I realize the markets don’t necessarily tell us anything about anything at any given time but…..it “appears” that someone somewhere, other than me, thinks the current model “might” be flawed. Right or wrong, it is as it is.

  Thanks Ken for this forum and the opportunity to wave another flag in the passion parade. I certainly recognize and appreciate your passion for what you do as well as everyone else in your industry.

  After 28 years you can probably tell that I too am pretty passionate about educating small and medium size businesses about all things marketing. How to cost effectively attract and keep customers. How to objectively analyze how and where to get the biggest bang for their marketing/advertising dollar. And how to turn customers into raving evangelists – in order to take the pressure off the always shrinking bucket of ad dollars available to the small and medium size local business owner.

  By the way…when you have between 9 and 10 minutes of free time – take a look and listen to Joe Jaffe’s comments in this video: http://adage.com/brightcove/single.php?bcpid=1370868150&bctid=1612710731

  BIG clues, BIG hints and FREE advice all over the place for any company in any industry but especially…the Yellow Pages industry!

• 4. Barry  |  June 30, 2008 at 1:26 am

  Under what legal authority does YB have to throw thier product on private property? I do not order, pay for, or want this product.
  I have to subsidize this billion dollar industry by paying my tax dollars to recycle or worse throw this product in the garbage.
  I have heard that this is free speech(press), however to me it is a matter of public safety not to have books in front of vacant houses or at homes where owners or tenants are away for days or weeks. I stop my mail and newspaper deliveries when I go away, how do I stop phone books? Public safety trumps free speech, can’t yell fire in a theater.

• 5. KenC  |  July 3, 2008 at 9:44 pm

  Barry:

  I’m not an attorney, but what law are they violating by giving you a book?? You are stretching.

  Your tax dollar comment is ludicrous. Current taxes are used for curbside recycling for what — newspaper, cans, bottles, etc. I don’t read the newspaper, so does that indicate my tax dollars are being used to subsidize the newspaper industry? Don’t use bottled water so I guess my tax dollars are also going to help the beverage industry also. Where does it stop then?

  The public safety comments are also dumb. First, what gives you right to decide which rights supersedes others?? Now a print Yellow Pages is a public safety hazard?? Please. It’s a yellow pages man. Get a life.

  This blog is not intended to be a forum for comments like yours. There are plenty of others out there that will gladly accept your dribels. Please feel free to go visit them.

  In the meantime, the Yellow Pages is the original search engine. Long live the Yellow Pages.

• 6. skbbr  |  July 22, 2008 at 5:36 pm

  Heh, pretty obvious that you don’t read the newspaper. Here’s what it comes down to for me. The 21st century in media seems to be characterized by bombardment by advertising on all sides. Telemarketers for example or email spam. Now some people may buy things from telemarketers, or click on links in email spam, and that’s their prerogative, but for those of us who don’t there are ways to “opt out.” Does this make sense to you? If people don’t like email spam and telemarketers, why would they want a giant tome of advertisements hurled at their house? For those that do, that’s fine, keep sending it to them! As for your statistics, let me ask you a question, where does google fall in? Personally I hate IYP’s, they’re just as jumbled as the real thing. There’s not a single local business query I’ve put to google that they haven’t been able to answer. And small businesses don’t even have to pay for that service. Sure corporations can pay google to be “featured links” but, those are neatly segregated, and there is no question as to which is which. And don’t worry maybe YP’s will become retro vogue, like photographic film. Only true hipster photographers and purists use that stuff. (tongue-in-cheek if you’re not picking up on it….)

• 7. KenC  |  July 22, 2008 at 6:41 pm

  SKBR:

  For the record, I actually read three PRINT newspapers a day. I think I may be one of the few that still does if you look at newspaper readership levels.

  You sound like you have a lot of issues. I’m sorry your life is filled with such stress from all of this advertising coming your way. It must be a real struggle to make it through the day and the 4,000+ advertising messages you encounter on an average day.

  To your one question “where does Google fall in?” The answer may surprise you — who do you think is working with all these small businesses to get their information online??? It’s the Yellow Pages people. If you talked with any of the major search engines you would know they are the ones providing the content that makes your Google searches relevant. You may “hate” IYP”s, but you failed to noticed that their content is actually driving many of the results you get on Google and other sites.

  As an advertiser, of course you want to be seen everywhere your potential customers are — in print Yellow Pages, online, maybe even direct mail. Small business owners are very good at what they do, but many are not marketing experts. That’s where the Yellow Page industry steps in, working with them to get their message out everywhere — in print, online, even mobile.

  And thank you for the chuckle about print YP becoming vogue. I don’t think so. Expect to see the newest edition on your doorstep next year. You really should take a look at it as it has plenty of great information.

• 8. Dominick  |  November 23, 2008 at 7:10 pm

  I am wondering what your take is on Idearc recent delisting and stock plunge? I used to work for thi scompany for close to five years and can tell you that factually, the revenues are increasingly coming up short. The main reason that many directories seem to appear larger than the years before is that SMB’s have caught on to the fact that most YP Publishers charge way more than they shoudl for advertising that has become increasingly INeffective. You can spin it any way that you want, but as a former ex employee, I can tell you that LESS SMB’s are advertising in the YP’s and the ones that are staying in, are not spending as much.

• 9. KenC  |  November 24, 2008 at 11:32 pm

  Idearc’s stock picture is sad but in today’s market isn’t unique out there — do you see what some of these other companies are trading at? And while GM may be out of business in 3 months, Idearc won’t. During this downturn every business big or small is watching their advertising expenditures carefully. Hence all media is being impacted. Have you seen the results of some of the newspapers? It’s really ugly.

  In my view Idearc expanded too fast into already competitive markets, didn’t understand how different it was to operate a business in a market where you aren’t the local telco, and failed to leverage the great Superpages brand they had created. Plain and simple.

  I’m not sure where you are getting your information from about advertisers spending, but just recently several advertisers at a Kelsey Group event noted their biggest issue is educating senior management that they should spend MORE on print YP as it still generated the best ROI for them. so don’t confuse the stock price of one company with the overal health of the industry. it’s apples and oranges.

• 10. Carrie  |  April 2, 2009 at 4:18 am

  First of all, when tracking the views or listeners from a geographic area for radio and TV, it is all done by sending out 500 so called diaries for people to fill out. What there income is, what they watch, how many children they have, what type of car they drive, do the travel, do they drink wine, how many hours they watch TV and so on. Then, they take the 500 responses. That is if everyone send them back and they apply it to ALL of the people within that city. I know, I worked TV and Radio as well as newprint. THAT IS A FACT, all of it is. Neilson Ratings as it is called are the most fixed, inaccurate method of advertsing measurments out there. You cannot base opinions of an entire city of 165,000 people off of 300 entries sent in. Look it up, that’s how it is done. I personally work for a yellowpage company, the biggest one in the world. YES, we do track hundrends of thousands of ads all the time. We put tracking line in the that go directly to the customer, they can even see who, when and where they are calling from and how long the call lasted. That information, is monitored by a 3rd party. Yellowpage advertising is by far the most directional advertising there is as well as the most reliable. People complain how much it costs, that is crazy! I use to sell commercials where people would pay $500.00 to $2,000 for a 30 second commercial to run one time! Now that is crazy. Now I go back to those same customers that spent that type of money with me before and they complain about $150.00 per month. What you have to be kidding me! A directory is available 365 days a year 7 days a week 24 hours a day WHEN YOU NEED IT. When you toilet is leaking are you going to sit by the TV and wait for a plumbing commercial to come on or cross your fingers that a commercial will come on the radio with a phone number. NO WAY, you are going to go to the most complete, reliable souce there is and look for someone to call. And that my friend is the directory. If business owers actually sit down and listen to their rep. and the full suite of products that we have. You could grow your busines more than you could ever guess. I know, I do it all the time for my cutomers. yellowpages does not create a demand in the ecomony, it can’t it is directional advertising. But, when the demand is there and people have money in hand and are ready to buy, but just don’t know from who. That is where we come in. We are the last stop before the point of purchase. You as a business owner have one last chance with your ad to sell your potiental customer. That it, it’s all trackable, proveable, and effective. Better start getting it or you are missing the boat people

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